4👑☸ Cattāri Ariya-saccaṃ 四聖諦

4👑☸ → 🏛️ → fnod 🔝

fnod ^1.. - AN
fnod ^2.. - DN
fnod ^3.. - KN
fnod ^4.. - MN
fnod ^5.. - SN
fnod ^6.. - Vin

Āgamas

fnod ^11.. – EA
fnod ^12.. – DA
fnod ^14.. – MA
fnod ^15.. – SA

toc in a little more detail

fnod ^1.. - AN
fnod ^1..1 – AN 1
fnod ^1..2 – AN 2
fnod ^1..3 – AN 3
fnod ^1..4 – AN 4
fnod ^1..5 – AN 5
fnod ^1..6 – AN 6
fnod ^1..7 – AN 7
fnod ^1..8 – AN 8
fnod ^1..9 – AN 9
fnod ^1..10 – AN 10
fnod ^1..11 – AN 11

detailed TOC

fnod ^1.. - AN
fnod ^1..1 – AN 1
fnod ^1..2 – AN 2
fnod ^1..3 – AN 3
fnod ^1..3.63 – AN ^3.63 walking in jhāna, 4bv
fnod ^1..4 – AN 4
fnod ^1..5 – AN 5
fnod ^1..5.176 – AN 5.176
fnod ^1..5.179 – AN 5.179
fnod ^1..5.179.1 - AN 5.179: 4 recollections are the vitakka (verbal linguistic thinking) of first jhāna
fnod ^1..6 – AN 6
fnod ^1..7 – AN 7
fnod ^1..8 – AN 8
fnod ^1..8.30 – AN ^8.30 8 great thoughts for first jhāna
fnod ^1..9 – AN 9
fnod ^1..9.36 – AN ^9.36 notes
fnod ^1..9.37 – AN ^9.37 notes
fnod ^1..10 – AN 10
fnod ^1..11 – AN 11
fnod ^2.. - DN
fnod ^2..5 – DN 5
fnod ^2..17 – DN ¹⁷ non Buddhist king attains first jhāna, ordinary thinking
fnod ^2..21 – DN ²¹ buddha hearing sounds in jhāna and thinking
fnod ^3.. - KN
fnod ^4.. - MN
fnod ^4..25 – MN 25
fnod ^4..111 – MN ¹¹¹ vipassana happens WHILE in jhāna and 7 perception attainments, along with 7sb☀️ concurrently
fnod ^4..119 – MN ¹¹⁹ kāyagatā-sati
fnod ^4..121 – MN ¹²¹ suññata
fnod ^4..122 – MN ¹²² suññata
fnod ^4..137 – MN ¹³⁷ upekkha in many distinct contexts
fnod ^5.. - SN
fnod ^5..1 - SN 1
fnod ^5..2 - SN 2
fnod ^5..3 - SN 3
fnod ^5..4 - SN 4
fnod ^5..5 - SN 5
fnod ^5..6 - SN 6
fnod ^5..7 - SN 7
fnod ^5..8 - SN 8
fnod ^5..9 - SN 9
fnod ^5..10 - SN 10
fnod ^5..11 - SN 11
fnod ^5..12 - SN 12
fnod ^5..13 - SN 13
fnod ^5..14 - SN 14
fnod ^5..15 - SN 15
fnod ^5..16 - SN 16
fnod ^5..17 - SN 17
fnod ^5..18 - SN 18
fnod ^5..19 - SN 19
fnod ^5..20 - SN 20
fnod ^5..21 - SN 21
fnod ^5..22 - SN 22
fnod ^5..23 - SN 23
fnod ^5..24 - SN 24
fnod ^5..25 - SN 25
fnod ^5..26 - SN 26
fnod ^5..27 - SN 27
fnod ^5..28 - SN 28
fnod ^5..29 - SN 29
fnod ^5..30 - SN 30
fnod ^5..31 - SN 31
fnod ^5..32 - SN 32
fnod ^5..33 - SN 33
fnod ^5..34 - SN 34
fnod ^5..35 - SN 35
fnod ^5..36 - SN 36
fnod ^5..36.11 – SN ^36.11 progressive 9 cessations
fnod ^5..36.11.2 – SN 36.11.2 vāca is vocalized speech, not mental talk: vocalization ceases in first jhāna, not vitakka
fnod ^5..36.31 – SN ^36.31 carnal = 5kg , non-carnal = 4j🌕 , surpassing non-carnal = arahant
fnod ^5..37 - SN 37
fnod ^5..38 - SN 38
fnod ^5..39 - SN 39
fnod ^5..40 - SN 40
fnod ^5..41 - SN 41
fnod ^5..41.8 – SN ^41.8 Jain founder, Buddha's first jhāna, Jain's first jhāna scripture
fnod ^5..42 - SN 42
fnod ^5..43 - SN 43
fnod ^5..44 - SN 44
fnod ^5..45 - SN 45
fnod ^5..46 - SN 46
fnod ^5..47 - SN 47
fnod ^5..48 - SN 48
fnod ^5..48.40 – SN ^48.40 LBT redefining sukha in third jhāna
fnod ^5..49 - SN 49
fnod ^5..50 - SN 50
fnod ^5..51 - SN 51
fnod ^5..52 - SN 52
fnod ^5..53 - SN 53
fnod ^5..54 - SN 54
fnod ^5..55 - SN 55
fnod ^5..56 - SN 56
fnod ^5..56.1 - SN ^56.1
fnod ^6.. - Vin
fnod ^11.. – EA
fnod ^12.. – DA
fnod ^14.. – MA
fnod ^15.. – SA

1.. - AN

fnod ^1..1 – AN 1
fnod ^1..2 – AN 2
fnod ^1..3 – AN 3
fnod ^1..4 – AN 4
fnod ^1..5 – AN 5
fnod ^1..6 – AN 6
fnod ^1..7 – AN 7
fnod ^1..8 – AN 8
fnod ^1..9 – AN 9
fnod ^1..10 – AN 10
fnod ^1..11 – AN 11

1..1 – AN 1

1..2 – AN 2

1..3 – AN 3

1..3.63 – AN ^3.63 walking in jhāna, 4bv

∥AN ^8.63.3 ∥ MA ^76.1.2
external notes collection 🔗📝

Buddha walking WHILE in jhāna, has two close EBT parallels Bhikkhu Sujato missed 🔗📝

1..4 – AN 4

1..5 – AN 5

1..5.176 – AN 5.176

see fnod ^1..5.179.1 - 4 recollections are the vitakka (verbal linguistic thinking) of first jhāna

1..5.179 – AN 5.179

1..5.179.1 - AN 5.179: 4 recollections are the vitakka (verbal linguistic thinking) of first jhāna

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/01/an-5179-4-recollections-are-vitakka.html
excerpt:
Interesting to note even though B. Sujato was tagged by Ven. Sabbamitta
(meaning Sujato was notified electronically to respond to the discussion),
he did not respond, even though he can be seen to be responding to other threads
on the same time period elsewhere in the forum.

Why?

Because Sujato continues to steadfastly cling to his erroneous views of vitakka on first jhāna being "placing the mind".
Even when members on his own forum present him with evidence showing that vitakka of first jhāna in the EBT
explicitly are explained as having verbal, linguistic thoughts, communicable language,
thoughts you say to yourself in your mind before you speak them out loud (vacī sankhāra are vitakka).

TANGENT: BRIEF SUMMARY OF LBT (LATE BUDDHIST) REDEFINITION OF JHĀNA

This is fundamental to all oral traditions.
Sati memorizes Dhamma scripture, in the form of communicable language (vitakka).
This is true in EBT (early Buddhism),
true of Jainism (pre Buddhist) definition of their sati, dhyāna (jhāna) and their vitakka,
true of other contemporary and later Brahmanical non Buddhist traditions,
true in Early Abhidhamma (see Ab Vb and Vimuttimagga).

Only 500 years later after the Buddha's death,
in LBT Theravada redefinition of jhāna in Visuddhimagga,
based on non canonical Abhidhamma commentary,

they redefine body (kāya) in jhāna as not physical body, but a mental body.
they redefine verbal thinking (vitakka), as not verbal thinking,
but mounting the mind on a visual kasina where no discernment or volitional thought is possible.

they redefine physical pleasure felt in the body as mental pleasure devoid of physical pleasure.
They redefine physical form (rūpa) as the mentally created visual kasina,
not the 31 anatomical body parts as EBT understands it.

Back to Ven. Sabbamitta's question

In her thread, She, Ven. Sunyo and others not surprisingly conclude
the 4 recollections are not first jhāna,
not vitakka of first jhāna doing the recollection.

Perhaps if they survey a few more related suttas,
they'll come to more sensible conclusion.

Clue #1: AN ^5.176, just 3 suttas ago from AN ^5.179,
we're dealing with the same Anathapindika and 500 lay followers.
In there, Sariputta is unmistakably glossing first jhāna.

Even Theravada commentary confirms that Pīti of AN ^5.176 is referring to first and second jhāna.

So in AN ^5.176, Buddha is telling the 501 lay followers
they should not be content in making merit donating requisites to the sangha,
that they should practice first jhāna.

Clue #2: even though AN ^5.179 doesn't mention vitakka explicitly
In AN ^5.179, the same 501 lay followers, following Buddha's advice,
now most of them if not all of them are strongly hinted to be stream enterers.
How did they get there?
By using vitakka of first jhāna doing the 4 recollections.

Elsewhere, probably every other occurrence of the 80+ sutta references
using the term ābhicetasikānaṃ refers to four jhānas.

Here, what's strongly implied is that most of those 500 followers can only do first jhāna,
since they rely on vitakka (verbal thinking) to do the 4 recollections.
Those who can not pacify (passaddhi sambojjhanga) verbal thoughts
can not rise to 2nd jhāna and above.

Clue #3: AN ^6.10 has 6 recollections (first 4 are same as the 4 of AN ^5.179)
and covers the same territory,
also dealing with lay people doing first jhāna,
and it's more explicit there by listing the 7 awakening factors.

My annotated translations, with copious specific links to the exact scene of the crime,
confirms everything I've asserted.

Clue #4: AN ^5.26 are monastics instead of followers doing all four jhānas
They're using the same vitakka of first jhāna,
but instead of thinking about 4 recollections,
they are contemplating meaning of Dharma,
and also not limited to verbal thoughts of first jhāna.
They move on to subverbal mental processing that takes them to second jhāna and beyond.

conclusion

So, contrary to Sujato and Ven. Sabbamitta,
who hold the view that vitakka of first jhāna is "placing the mind" (on a visual kasina),
and that the four recollections are topics of mindfulness that one uses to enter samādhi
(but are not properly considered part of four jhānas),

if you actually read the Buddha's words you'll find the Buddha was a plain speaker
and used his terms consistently.

Vitakka in all Indian oral traditions is what sati memorizes
and mentally says in their mind before speaking it out loud,
and vitakka in first jhāna is mentally reciting and reflecting
on the four recollections with that very same vitakka & vicāra.
(end of article⏹️)

1..6 – AN 6

1..7 – AN 7

1..8 – AN 8

1..8.30 – AN ^8.30 8 great thoughts for first jhāna

notes collection: 🔗📝

1..9 – AN 9

1..9.36 – AN ^9.36 notes

See JST🥪 ^3.1 notes on AN 9.36 on proof that 4 jhānas is connnected to 5 bodily senses and rūpa,
∥ Sarv Ab Dk ^15.6 – samādhi awakening factor 6🌄 and realizing nirvana within jhāna ∥AN ^9.36
EBT parallels^1..9.36

1..9.37 – AN ^9.37 notes

* 9 things are: 5 body senses, first 3 formless attainments, and the special unforced samādhi

b.bodhi footnotes on that special samādhi

1927 Mp: “Does not lean forward by way of lust,
and does not bend back by way of hatred”
(rāgavasena na abhinato, dosavasena na apanato).

1928 See 5:27. Here Mp comments:
“It is steady, not because one has forcefully and vigorously reined in and suppressed the defilements,
but because it has arisen when the defilements are cut off.”

1929 Vimuttattā ṭhito, ṭhitattā santusito, santusitattā no paritassati.
This sequence is also at SN III 45,13–14, 46,4–5, 54,1–2, 55,34–35, 58,23–24.
It is on the basis of the latter passages that I see a change in the subject of the last phrase of the AN text,
from “it,” referring to the samādhi, to “one,” the person who attains it.
While in the AN passage, the participles are masculine singular and thus may be interpreted as referring either to the samādhi or to the person,
the SN parallels read:
Vimuttattā ṭhitaṃ.
Ṭhitattā santusitaṃ.
Santusitattā na paritassati.
Aparitassaṃ paccattaññeva parinibbāyati.
‘Khīṇā jāti, vusitaṃ brahmacariyaṃ, kataṃ karaṇīyaṃ, nāparaṃ itthattāyā’ti pajānātī ti.
The neuter singular participles indicate that the subject of the first two phrases is cittaṃ,
but with santusitattā na paritassati,
the subject seems to shift from cittaṃ to the person attaining liberation.
We can infer by analogy that in the present passage a similar shift occurs,
in this case from samādhi to the person who attains it.

1930 Ayaṃ, bhante Ānanda, samādhi kiṃphalo vutto bhagavatā.
The question is ambiguous.
It could mean either, “Of what did the Blessed One say this concentration is the fruit?”
or “What did the Blessed One say this concentration has as its fruit?”
Mp takes it in the former way, but there are arguments in favor of the latter (see next note).

1931 Ayaṃ, bhagini, samādhi aññāphalo vutto bhagavatā.
The compound aññāphalo could be interpreted either as a tappurisa (“this concentration is the fruit of final knowledge”) or as a bāhubbīhi (“this concentration has final knowledge as its fruit”).
In the former case, the samādhi is to be identified with the fruit;
in the latter, with an achievement preceding the fruit.
Mp takes it in the former sense, as the fruit itself:
“The nun asks about the concentration of the fruit of arahantship (arahattaphalasamādhi).
Final knowledge is arahantship.
The Blessed One has spoken of this concentration of the fruit of arahantship.
[The intention is:] When one is percipient with the perception of the fruit of arahantship,
one does not experience that base.”
However, the question kiṃphalā occurs repeatedly at SN V 118,22–120,19, where it must mean,
“What does it have as its fruit?”
And in 5:25 we find pañcahi, bhikkhave,
aṅgehi anuggahitā sammādiṭṭhi ca cetovimuttiphalā hoti … paññāvimuttiphalā ca hoti.
The sense here is not that right view is the fruit of liberation of mind and liberation by wisdom,
but that right view has liberation of mind and liberation by wisdom as its fruit.

Further, in 3:101, a samādhi described in exactly the same terms as this one is shown to be the supporting condition for the six higher knowledges,
the last of which is the “the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom.”
By analogy, it follows that this samādhi is not the fruit of final knowledge,
but one that yields final knowledge.

There is a Chinese parallel to this last portion of the sutta, SĀ 557 at T II 146a12–29.
In this version, when the bhikkhunī asks Ānanda the question about the concentration of mind without characteristics ( = animitta cetosamādhi),
he replies that the Buddha said this concentration “is the fruit of wisdom, the reward of wisdom”
(, which has the same ambiguity that I mentioned in the preceding note).

1..10 – AN 10

1..11 – AN 11

2.. - DN

2..5 – DN 5

stream entry with hearing, thinking, first jhāna

DN ^5.7 he was taught sīla and four jhāna.
attained stream entry during talk, with mind in or close to first jhāna

Atha kho bhagavā kūṭadantassa brāhmaṇassa anupubbiṃ kathaṃ kathesi,	Then the Buddha taught Kūṭadanta step by step, with
seyyathidaṃ—dānakathaṃ sīlakathaṃ saggakathaṃ;	a talk on giving, ethical conduct, and heaven.
kāmānaṃ ādīnavaṃ okāraṃ saṅkilesaṃ nekkhamme ānisaṃsaṃ pakāsesi.	He explained the drawbacks of sensual pleasures, so sordid and corrupt, and the benefit of renunciation.
Yadā bhagavā aññāsi kūṭadantaṃ brāhmaṇaṃ kallacittaṃ muducittaṃ vinīvaraṇacittaṃ udaggacittaṃ pasannacittaṃ, atha yā buddhānaṃ sāmukkaṃsikā dhammadesanā, taṃ pakāsesi—	And when he knew that Kūṭadanta’s mind was ready, pliable, rid of hindrances, joyful, and confident he explained the special teaching of the Buddhas:
dukkhaṃ samudayaṃ nirodhaṃ maggaṃ.	suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path.
Seyyathāpi nāma suddhaṃ vatthaṃ apagatakāḷakaṃ sammadeva rajanaṃ paṭiggaṇheyya;	Just as a clean cloth rid of stains would properly absorb dye,
evameva kūṭadantassa brāhmaṇassa tasmiññeva āsane virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi:	in that very seat the stainless, immaculate vision of the Dhamma arose in the brahmin Kūṭadanta:
“yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti.	“Everything that has a beginning has an end.”

2..17 – DN ¹⁷ non Buddhist king attains first jhāna, ordinary thinking

DN 17 B. Sujato in Ajahn Brahm's time machine goes back 84,000 years ago to Teach King Mahasudassana how to do "Jhāna"🔗📝

DN ^17.5

Atha kho, ānanda, rañño mahāsudassanassa etadahosi:	Then King Mahāsudassana thought:
‘kissa nu kho me idaṃ kammassa phalaṃ kissa kammassa vipāko, yenāhaṃ etarahi evaṃmahiddhiko evaṃmahānubhāvo’ti?	‘Of what deed of mine is this the fruit and result, that I am now so mighty and powerful?’
Atha kho, ānanda, rañño mahāsudassanassa etadahosi:	Then King Mahāsudassana thought:
‘tiṇṇaṃ kho me idaṃ kammānaṃ phalaṃ tiṇṇaṃ kammānaṃ vipāko, yenāhaṃ etarahi evaṃmahiddhiko evaṃmahānubhāvo, seyyathidaṃ—	‘It is the fruit and result of three kinds of deeds:
dānassa damassa saṃyamassā’ti.	giving, self-control, and restraint.’
Atha kho, ānanda, rājā mahāsudassano yena mahāviyūhaṃ kūṭāgāraṃ tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā mahāviyūhassa kūṭāgārassa dvāre ṭhito udānaṃ udānesi:	Then he went to the great foyer, stood at the door, and spoke these words of inspiration:
‘tiṭṭha, kāmavitakka, tiṭṭha, byāpādavitakka, tiṭṭha, vihiṃsāvitakka.	‘Stop here, sensual, malicious, and cruel thoughts—
Ettāvatā, kāmavitakka, ettāvatā, byāpādavitakka, ettāvatā, vihiṃsāvitakkā’ti.	no further!’

… all four jhānas, and 4bv☮️

Atha kho, ānanda, rājā mahāsudassano mahāviyūhaṃ kūṭāgāraṃ pavisitvā sovaṇṇamaye pallaṅke nisinno vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṃ savicāraṃ vivekajaṃ pītisukhaṃ paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja vihāsi.

Then he entered the great foyer and sat on the golden couch. Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, he entered and remained in the first jhāna, which has the rapture and pleasure born of seclusion, while directing-thought and evaluation.

2..21 – DN ²¹ buddha hearing sounds in jhāna and thinking

∥ MA-bdk ¹³⁴ ∥DA-cp ¹⁴
notes collection: 🔗📝

3.. - KN

* Khuddaka Nikāya: name of a collection of canonical books comprising 15 books:
1) Kp = Pāṭha, Khuddaka-pāṭha: short-reading
2) Dhp = Dhamma-pada: a line or stanza of the Norm. (nt.)
3) Ud = Udāna: [inspired] Utterances
4) Iti = Iti-vuttaka: Thus (was it) said
5) Snp = Sutta Nipāta: discourse - section, falling down, descending
6) Vv = Vimāna-vatthu : mansion, heavenly palace - story
7) Pv = Peta-vatthu : ghost - story
8) Thag = Thera-gāthā: Elder [monk] - verses
9) Thig = Therī-gāthā: Elder [nun] - verses
10) Jātaka (verses only), Ja = Jātaka: birth
11) niddesa: description, analytic explanation
12) Ps = Paṭi-sambhidā-magga: Discrimination-path
13) Apadāna, Therā/i-(a)padāna: Elder [monks and nuns] legendary stories
14) Buddha-vaṃsa: Buddha - race, lineage, family
15) Cariyā-piṭaka: conduct, behavior - basket, container

* in Burmese tipitaka these 3 included under KN.
16) KN Ne = Netti: guide, conduit
17) Pe = Peṭako-padesa: Pitaka disclosure
18) Mil = KN: Milinda-pañha: Milinda-pañha: [King] Milinda's - questions

4.. - MN

4..25 – MN 25

AN 9.39 simile of blinding mara makes distinction between four jhanas and 5 arupa samadhi attainments, and why Vism. Jhana is wrong.
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2021/02/an-939-simile-of-blinding-mara-makes.html

4..111 – MN ¹¹¹ vipassana happens WHILE in jhāna and 7 perception attainments, along with 7sb☀️ concurrently

EBT parallels^4..111
EXT collection of notes on MN 111

4..117 – MN ¹¹⁷ great 40

🔗📝 notes on MN 117

4..119 – MN ¹¹⁹ kāyagatā-sati

∥ MA ⁸¹ ∥ MA ⁹⁸

MN 119 why would the Buddha ask you do 4 jhānas while you're walking, if it's impossible to do (according to Vism., Brahm, etc.)? 🔗📝

4..121 – MN ¹²¹ suññata

∥ MA-bdk ¹⁹⁰

both MN 121 and MA 190 have vipassana while in jhāna and formless attainments, using sampajāno / pajānati.
- even attaining arahantship while in animitta samādhi

MN 121 has an error – dimension of neither perception nor non perception needs to emerge before doing vipassana
MA 190 avoids error by omitting that attainment entirely

4..122 – MN ¹²² suññata

∥ MA-bdk ¹⁹¹

4..137 – MN ¹³⁷ upekkha in many distinct contexts

collection of notes: 🔗📝

MA notes foundation for the vipassanā development

aṭṭhasu hi samāpattīsu paṭhamādīni ca tīṇi jhānāni, suddhasaṅkhāre ca pādake katvā ...	Having made the purified formations in the eight attainments and the first three jhānas as the foundation ...
catutthajjhānādīni pādakāni katvā ...	Having made the fourth jhāna and so forth as the foundation ...

Thanissaro commentary

(Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu‍ intro to his translation of this sutta)
Despite the abstract format of this discourse, it deals with an emotional topic:
the source of emotions, the use of the emotions in the course of the practice, and the ideal emotional state of a person who has completed the path and is fit to teach others.
In particular, this discourse counters a common misperception:
that the distress that comes from having an unachieved goal is an obstacle in the practice, and that the antidote for that distress is to renounce any sense of goals.
In actuality, that distress—termed “renunciation-based distress”—has an important role in the practice:
to overcome the distress that comes with a sense of loss over sensual pleasures that have not been attained, or those that have been attained in the past but now no longer exist.
Renunciation-based distress serves as a reminder that the loss of sensual pleasures is not a serious matter.
As for renunciation-based distress, it is overcome, not by abandoning any sense of goal, but by following the path and realizing the joy that comes when the goal is reached.

This discourse counters another misperception as well:
that equanimous-observation is the goal of the practice.
In actuality, renunciation-based equanimous-observation serves a function as part of the path of practice—as a tool for letting go of renunciation-based joy—
and then it, too, is transcended by the state called “non-fashioning” (atammayatā), in which there is no act of intention, not even the intention underlying equanimous-observation, at all.

frankk commentary

frankk‍:

(18 mental explorations)

* MN 137² – (18 mental vicāra/explorations = 6 x [so-manassa + do-manassa + upekkha]):
That’s what KN Snp‍ ^5.14 is talking about with vitakka being explored by vicāra
MA cmy agrees 18 vicāra is referring to V&V💭 .

“Nandisaṁyojano loko,	delight fetters the world.
vitakkassa vicāraṇaṁ;	with [wrong] thoughts [delight] is explored, with directed-thought [of first jhāna, the nature of wrong thought] is examined.
Taṇhāya vippahānena,	Through craving’s abandoning
nibbānaṁ iti vuccati”.	nirvana is spoken of.

5.. - SN

5..1 - SN 1

5..2 - SN 2

5..3 - SN 3

5..4 - SN 4

5..4.25 – SN ^4.25 māra’s daughters

🔗📝 SN 4.25 Māra's daughters talk to Buddha and try to seduce him WHILE he is in Jhāna
🔗📝 SN 4.25, KN Snp 4.9 Māra's 3 daughters: taṇhaṁ aratiṁ ragañca: Sujato claims paḷi error, Why?
related:
🔗📝 SN 4.23 translation error by Sujato, on the arahant said to always (all the time) be enjoying jhāna

5..5 - SN 5

5..6 - SN 6

5..7 - SN 7

5..8 - SN 8

5..9 - SN 9

5..10 - SN 10

5..11 - SN 11

5..12 - SN 12

5..13 - SN 13

5..14 - SN 14

5..15 - SN 15

5..16 - SN 16

5..17 - SN 17

5..18 - SN 18

5..19 - SN 19

5..20 - SN 20

5..21 - SN 21

5..22 - SN 22

5..23 - SN 23

5..24 - SN 24

5..25 - SN 25

5..26 - SN 26

5..27 - SN 27

5..28 - SN 28

5..29 - SN 29

5..30 - SN 30

5..31 - SN 31

5..32 - SN 32

5..33 - SN 33

5..34 - SN 34

5..35 - SN 35

5..36 - SN 36

5..36.11 – SN ^36.11 progressive 9 cessations

5..36.11.2 – SN 36.11.2 vāca is vocalized speech, not mental talk: vocalization ceases in first jhāna, not vitakka

SN 36.11 vāca is vocalized speech, not mental talk:
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/02/sn-3611-vaca-is-vocalized-speech-not.html

modified excerpt:
vocalization ceases in first jhāna, not vitakka.
The Ajahn Brahm, Sujato and Vism. camp have a difficult time explaining
what SN ^36.11 means when it says speech (vāca) ceases in first jhāna.

paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa
(with) first jhāna attained,
vācā vūpasantā hoti.
vocalization-of-speech has been stilled,

Does it need to be said deaf people can't hear sounds in first jhāna?

If you're already disembodied in (their corrupt redefinition of) first jhāna,
5 senses shut off and unable to speak,
why would the Buddha say in SN ^36.11 that speech ceases?

It's like saying in first jhāna, a deaf man can't hear sounds.
A deaf man can't hear sounds anywhere, any time.
It's a superfluous, useless thing to say they can't hear in first jhāna.

∴ Therefore, the first jhāna is not a disembodied state where the mind is divorced from 5 senses of the body.

So what can we do? Let's redefine another important basic term!

So what can Sujato and Brahm do, faced with this conundrum?
Their usual bag of tricks.

Redefine vāca to not be vocalized speech, but mental talk, unvocalized verbal thoughts.

If they can redefine body as "not physical body",
and "verbal thought (vitakka)" as "not verbal thought, but placing a mind on a visual kasina",
that has a cascading effect where they have to start redefining many other terms.

So now vāca in first jhāna according to them means verbal thoughts.
This is completely incoherent.

In an oral tradition, sati memorizes Dhamma in the form of vitakka,
a communicable verbal linguistic language communicated by means of vocalization (vāca), hearing, and memorizing.

AN ^5.26 shows all of this going in on, for first jhāna context.

AN ^5.26 - AN ^5.26 Vimuttāyatana: Opportunities for Freedom
AN ^5.26.1 - First jhāna possible while hearing live dhamma talk
AN ^5.26.1.7 - (refrain: 7sb☀️ → jhāna → arahantship)
AN ^5.26.2 - Giving a dhamma talk leads to himself getting jhāna
AN ^5.26.2.7 - (refrain: 7sb☀️ → jhāna → arahantship)
AN ^5.26.3 - Reciting memorized dhamma passage leads to jhāna
AN ^5.26.3.7 - (refrain: 7sb☀️ → jhāna → arahantship)
AN ^5.26.4 - first jhāna possible while thinking and pondering memorized dhamma
AN ^5.26.4.7 - (refrain: 7sb☀️ → jhāna → arahantship)
AN ^5.26.5 - No V&V, undirected samādhi into 2nd jhāna or higher
AN ^5.26.5.7 - (refrain: 7sb☀️ → jhāna → arahantship)

You can't have vāca redefined as 'unvocalized mental talk' in SN ^36.11 and have it make sense in AN ^5.26.
Speech needs to be vocal, thought needs to be verbal linguistic mental talk.

Another sutta with first jhāna context,

● AN ^7.61 Pacalāyamāna: Nodding Off
Buddha teaches Moggallana 7 ways to fight off drowsiness
(1. don’t attend to the perception that made you drowsy)
(2. Recall dhamma using V&V💭, thinking and evaluation, and upekkha)
(3. Recite that dhamma out loud, vocally)
(4. Pull your earlobes and rub your limbs)
(5. Stand up, wash eyes with water, look at stars in sky)
(6. STED ASND 🌕🌟‍: luminosity perception all day all night)
(7. Start walking meditation)
(Lie down in lion posture as last resort)
(don’t sociaize with lay people too much, causes restlessness)
(don’t say confrontational things)
(Buddha praises secluded meditation areas)
(conclusion: brief summary of path to arahantship)

In the 7 ways to ward off drowsiness, #3 involves vāca, vocalized speech, reciting Dharma.
That's distinctly different from #2, mentally reciting the Dhamma, energetically less intensive than vocalization. The 7 steps get progressively more energetic.

Vāca (pāḷi), Vox (latin), Voice / vocalization (English) have common Indo Euro root

Mental speech is not vocalized speech.
A normal person can't hear mental talk.
Vocal cords need to vibrate and emit sound for someone to hear it.
This is true in pāli, true in latin, true in English, true in any oral tradition using the basic unambiguous fundamental terms to denote the difference between speech, language, and linguistic mental talk.

You can't arbitrarily redefine vocal speech to mean mental speech,
and you can't redefine linguistic verbal thought into "no verbal thought, just placing mind on a kasina".

Suttas and vinaya (monastic rules of discipline) become incoherent and unenforceable

If you allow Sujato and Brahm to have their way of redefining important key words to justify their corrupt redefinition of jhāna,
The entire collection of suttas and vinaya becomes broken and incoherent.
The Buddha frequently contrasts kāya (physical body) action against the actions of vāca (speech), and mano (mental) action.
They are 3 distinctly different types of actions with 3 distinctly different karmic consequences.

In Sujato and Brahm world, you can't tell what kind of action it is, you can't enact any kind of monastic rule.

This article I wrote focused on their ambiguation of kāya, but the same example shows how speech also needs to be differentiated from thought.

MN ⁵⁶ Bob punches Carl in the face - A Primer on why 3 types of actions are distinct (you can't redefine kāya as 'mind'!)
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2022/05/mn-56-kaya-needs-to-be-ones-physical.html
(end of article⏹️)

SN 36.15, 16 17, 18 also contains 9 gradual nirodha

(footnotes from my first translation)
With suttas 15-18 being the same sutta with different groups of monks asking about it, we can safely assume this model of 9 cessations was probably taught very often, and over 45 years of teaching became the Buddha’s basic model for 9 attainments. The agamas (another EBT school) has parallels to these 5 suttas, whereas the cluster of 30 suttas near AN 9.30 also deal with 9 attainments, with one important difference, does NOT have parallels in the agamas. AFAIK.

DPR has alternate word for kāma-sañña

āmissa (sya): meaning pleasure of flesh? As in vedana sa-misa for worldly pleasure, and nirā-misa for jhāna pleasure? And which tipitaka is ‘sya’?

difference in first jhana

b.bodhi: (1) For one who has attained the first jhāna, sensual perception has ceased.
b.thanissaro: “When one has attained the first jhāna, the perception of sensuality has ceased.
paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa kāmasaññā [VAR āmissa (sya)] niruddhā hoti;

Adjective: sensual

Adjective: sensual
|sen-shoo-ul|

Marked by the appetites and passions of the body • music is the only sensual pleasure without vice • a sensual delight in eating
=
animal, carnal, fleshly
≈
physical

Sexually exciting or gratifying • sensual excesses
=
sultry
≈
hot
Derived
Noun: sensualism, sensuality, sensualness
Verb: sensualize
Adverb: sensually

Noun: sensuality

|,sen-shoo'a-li-tee| |,sen-syoo'a-li-tee|

Desire for sensual pleasures
=
sensualism, sensualness
~
concupiscence, eros, physical attraction, sexual desire
Derived
Adjective: sensual

Adjective: gradual

|gra-joo-ul|

Proceeding in small stages • a gradual increase in prices
≈
bit-by-bit, gradational, gradatory, graduated, in small stages, piecemeal, slow, step-by-step, stepwise
◑ (antonym)
sudden

(of a topographical gradient) not steep or abrupt • a gradual slope
≈
easy, gentle, inclined, sloping
◑ (antonym)
steep

gradual training is not out of order, random, or backwards

Before you slam dunk a basketball viciously on your opponent's head in a game, first you need to be able to do a layup.
Before you can do a lay up in a game, first you need to be able to move around and dribble.
Before you move around and dribble, you need the ability to stand still and dribble.

You don't teach someone to dunk before they can dribble.

You don't teach someone rupa samadhi and expect them to attain a-rupa before doing rupa.
You don't expect someone to go from vocalization to arupa samadhi before first calming down vocalizations,
calming the fabrications for the vocalizations, also known as thinking & evaluation.
You don't teach someone to just suddenly have all thinking completely cut off before first jhana.
That's not gradual, that's abrupt and not a step by step training.
(end of article⏹️)

5..36.31 – SN ^36.31 carnal = 5kg , non-carnal = 4j🌕 , surpassing non-carnal = arahant

my new translation vs. existing ones: 🔗📝

5..37 - SN 37

5..38 - SN 38

5..39 - SN 39

5..40 - SN 40

5..41 - SN 41

5..41.8 – SN ^41.8 Jain founder, Buddha's first jhāna, Jain's first jhāna scripture

45320
SN 41.8 Jain founder, Buddha's first jhāna, Jain's first jhāna scripture
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/01/sn-418-jain-founder-buddhas-first-jhana.html

The Jain Tattvārtha Sūtra, describing different kinds of dhyāna (Pāli Jhāna),
says in sutras 9.43-44 that
vitarka (Pāli vitakka) is scriptural knowledge (śruta) and that
vicāra is a shifting between the object, its word, and its activity (Tatia 1994, 242).

On proof that vitakka is verbal, see JST🥪 ²

vitakka and vicara are essential words/concepts in basic human communication
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2020/01/vitakka-and-vicara-are-essential.html

43872
Concise Proof that Vitakka and Vicāra of first jhāna means 'thinking & evaluation'
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2020/02/concise-proof-that-vitakka-and-vicara.html

43993
SN 41.8 Jain founder doesn’t believe 2nd jhana possible, B. Sujato interpretation of vitakka illogical and incoherent
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2020/06/sn-418-jain-founder-doesnt-believe-2nd.html

44470
SN 41.8 non Buddhist doing 1st jhana, MN 36 Buddha as a boy (was non Buddhist) doing first jhana
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2021/10/sn-418-non-buddhist-doing-1st-jhana-mn.html

THE FIRST JHĀNA, AN ASSIMILATED JAIN MEDITATION PRACTICE
https://www.academia.edu/45145533/The_First_Jhana_an_Assimilated_Jain_Meditation_Practice
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/the-first-jhana-as-an-assimilated-jain-meditation-practice/19263/30

5..42 - SN 42

5..43 - SN 43

5..44 - SN 44

5..45 - SN 45

5..46 - SN 46

5..47 - SN 47

5..48 - SN 48

5..48.40 – SN ^48.40 LBT redefining sukha in third jhāna

de corrupting: 🔗📝
AVS and different version of SN 48.40: SN 48.40 corrupted version and analysis

sunyo argument by silence fallacy: 🔗📝

5..49 - SN 49

5..50 - SN 50

5..51 - SN 51

5..52 - SN 52

5..53 - SN 53

5..54 - SN 54

5..55 - SN 55

5..56 - SN 56

5..56.1 - SN ^56.1

* without samadhi properly developed up to the quality of four jhanas,
you will only have a superficial intellectual understanding of the 4nt noble truths in theory,
but not a direct realization of it that frees you from dukkha.

* right view, the first of the 8aam noble eightfold path,
can not be fulfilled without the 8th factor, samadhi,
developed up to quality of at least first jhana.

* that mutual dependence between the first and eighth factor,
is an eight spoked wheel spinning in a virtuous cycle,
a virtuous feedback loop.
Or a snow ball that gains mass exponentially as it rolls.
As sati and samadhi gains in strength and power,
leading to correspoding exponential growth in right view.

6.. - Vin

11.. – EA

11..17.1 – EA‍ ^17.1 breath meditation

∥ MN ⁶²

William Chu
“12/30/2019 10:16:00”

to me
盡觀身體入息、出息

This is the part, and apparently is mistranslated in the passage you cited.
The proper translation should be
[He] contemplates on the in-breath and out-breath as they pervade the entire body.
The original translator conveniently left out the character 盡,
which frequently means "thorough," "entire"...

The sutta doesn't say anything about breath stopping in the fourth jhana.
It does say that one should know when there's breath, and when there's no breath
(有時有息亦復知有，又時無息亦復知無:
"There are occasions when there's [felt] breath;
on those occasions one should know that there's breath.
There are occasions when there's no [felt] breath;
on those occasions one should know that there's no [felt] breath.")

There's no 100% certainty when it comes to classical Chinese.
As you mentioned, it is terse and loaded.
Moreover, there's no set grammar.
In this case, the jin (completely, entirely) could be read as a modifier for guan (contemplation) or shen (body) or xi (breath).
Grammatically, what this lady has provided would pass.
However, I just think that given what we know about the sister suttas/sutras,
it is reasonable to read it as "entire body."